THE SORCERER’S APPRENTICE on Disney Blu-ray™ & DVD
Thursday, November 18, 2010 – 9:30 AM – 11:30 AM US Pacific Time
Q – What were the biggest challenges for you during the production of this movie?
A – John Nelson: The biggest challenge was to create magic that was grounded in reality and believable. It would have been easier to create something that was big and splashy but to create something that you could believe and had real elements that the actors could touch and interact with was more difficult. The film has VFX for magic that seems real and interacts with real elements and the actors. It all seems to flow well and fit the story and has the real component we all wanted.
Q – Besides the VFX there was also a huge amount of special effects like real fire or actors on wires. Could you explain the advantages of using real effects on actors, story, and the film generally?
A – John Nelson: The best visual effect is one that the audience feels but does not notice as a visual effect. Using real elements such as fire, wind, water, gravity are all things all of us as humans can relate to and know from our own experiences. Adding visual effects to extend and elaborate this is a great way to make the effects feel real, be amazing and be grounded as well. For jeopardy to be real, things must appear to be real first and then amazing second. We use practical effects on set so the actors have something to act with and react to even if we will replace or augment later to intensify the storyline.
Q – During the making of THE SORCERER’S APPRENTICE, which SFX scene was the most difficult to execute and why?
A – John Nelson: The most difficult sequences were … 1) The Arcana Cabana because it was the beginning of the movie and in one sequence it showed many of the magic components we saw later in the film. From a grimhold birth of cockroaches making Horvath, to Balthazar generating plasma, to Horvath throwing fire lots of forms of elemental magic were present. 2) The Chinatown sequence because it was a large set piece with many actors in a real location. We generated several characters (Sun Loc, the Chinese sorcerer, his breastplate to control the dragon and a transition between a real paper dragon and a real fire breathing dragon). We had to create magic that worked with our actors and a supporting cast of thousands to make the scene play. 3) The end battle because it took place over a large part of Manhattan and then in different places all over the world. The scale and scope of this needed to be large while still telling the story of Dave becoming the sorcerer that is needed to save the day.
Q – Do you ever fear, and I know this may be silly asking a visual effects supervisor, that emphasis is put too much on Visual Effects, making the story lose focus?
A – John Nelson: Jon Turteltaub always puts the story first. It was easy to keep the VFX in the service of the story because that is what Jon T is all about.
Q – You shoot on real places e.g. Chinatown. However, have you had to reconstruct some sets in 3D?
A – John Nelson: We had to lidar scan all of the block we shot in Chinatown so we could create them inside the computer when needed. We also took still photos to do photogrammetry and for real textures to map onto the CG buildings. Mostly we tried to used real backgrounds as much as possible as they look real and are the best! For the destruction shots, we would create buildings on set we could destroy and then put in the real buildings from NY’s Chinatown.
Q – How did you feel about bringing the world famous ‘Wall Street Bull’ to life?
A – John Nelson: It was great because it is an icon most people know and a big part of New York City. When we shot there it was wonderful to see how people interacted with the WS bull in a friendly way. It was fun to bring him to life and make him act in an aggressive way like a real bull.
Q – Can you walk us through the process of creating special effects for a movie – from thought to final scene?
A – John Nelson: First you conceive the effect in a logic that works for the story, then you design a visual that looks good and you feel you can pull off, next you budget the process so you can afford it, then you shoot backgrounds with actors acting their part, then in post production you add the parts that were not there on the day you filmed the actors. It is a long process, but the logic is important for any visual effect to work. Logic and rules make the magic you create real, because whatever world you create, the rules must be consistent.
Q – Which is more important to you – to be nominated for an award or to be number one on the box office list?
A – John Nelson: For me the most important thing is to make a good film. Sometimes that means that the visual effects need to be more of a background player and sometimes that means the VFX need to be more of a star. The biggest complement I can give to a film is that it is a good film, (good story and characters) AND the visual effects were good. Awards are fun, box-office is always great because you know people have seen and enjoyed the film.
Q – What kind of special effects do you prefer and why – old school handcrafted effects or CGI?
A – John Nelson: I prefer mixing up techniques as much as possible. The older techniques are great because they are simple and real. Usually the best VFX solution is the simplest one. If you mix up a real practical shot in a series of CG shots, the one practical shot will make the whole sequence feel real. CG is great because nothing is impossible. Visual effects are used when things are too expensive, too dangerous or impossible to do any other way. We become the great extender to complete ideas that could not be done any other way.
Q – How many vfx shoots did you have to supervise and how was the work with double negative and asylum?
A – John Nelson: We split the show up with Asylum doing mostly the first half of the film and D-Neg doing mostly the second half. The actual breakdown of the effects were … Asylum – 460 shots; D-Neg – 375 shots; Rising Sun – 69 shots; Method – 48 shots; an in-house crew – 301 shots; Company 3 – 4 shots. For a total of 1251 visual effects shots!!!
Q – How much time did you spent on that project?
A – John Nelson: I spent about a year and a half on the film with approximately three months in pre-production, six months in Principal photography and nine months in post-production. Pre-production is where we plan, Principal photography is where we photograph the actors with the crew and post-production is where we edit and add the visual effects, music and sound.
Q – Did you face some troubles during the making of the special effects that made it impossible to keep to the original script?
A – John Nelson: We sometimes would create a cool effect but have to not go through with it because it did not fit in the logic of the script and rules and logic are important to keeping the magic and VFX real. For example early on, we tested a way for the sorcerers to astral project themselves from one place to another and we did a test that was cool. Later in the script though, we had the sorcerers flying on the Chrysler building eagle. We dropped the astral scene because if they could project themselves anywhere, why would they need to fly on a real eagle. Also we felt making the sorcerers really have to travel from one place to another (albeit via magic) made their story more real.
Q – Have you ever come across a thought for a VFX and then turned it down because it was “impossible” to realize with modern VFX technology?
A – John Nelson: Nothing is impossible given enough time and money. The question we always ask ourselves is not if we can do something but why we should do it and what does it add to the story we are telling. Reinforcing the story and characters is the best thing visual effects can do in addition to being something incredible to see.
Q – You have done the visual effects for a lot of well known movies, including Gladiator, The Matrix and Terminator 2. Was there a movie that stood out for you? And why?
A – John Nelson: In each film, visual effects had to deliver something that was important to telling the story. In “Gladiator,” we had to show the size and complexity that was Rome. In “Iron Man,” you had to believe a 1000 lb. metal suit could fly. In “The Sorcerer’s Apprentice,” the magic had to appear to be real and grounded in the reality of the story. One thing I love about my job is that each film has different impossible problems I get to create solutions for.
Q – What goes through your head when you see VFX efforts from 10-20 years ago?
A – John Nelson: I see VFX being even more incorporated into story and that things will appear to be even more real. Films have always been about people and their stories. VFX will provide even grander stages for these stories to plan upon. I have always thought VFX was a great way to experience the past (or the future). In a way, visual effects are a great time machine to visualize what we see in our imagination.
Q – What do you personally think about the Blu-ray format?
A – John Nelson: I think it is incredible. The Sorcerer’s transfer looks fantastic and the behind the scenes sequences reminds me of how much fun we had making the film.
Q – How much of your inspiration for visual effects comes from inventors such as N. Tesla?
A – John Nelson: Tesla was indeed a man that stepped out of the future. We definitely looked at his life and inventions. We even shot on the street (W 40th st) that he had his laboratory on. The story also builds upon the Arthur C. Clarke quote that, “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”
Q – I would like to know more about your work. Were there concrete ideas that came directly from you, for example; ‘let’s give the actors some blue lamps into their hands to simulate the plasma balls? ‘
A – John Nelson: I knew we needed to have an interactive light source for the magic that generated light. I also knew that the actors would appreciate having something they could work with in their performances. Having a real light casting on the actors makes them look better and makes the effect we add in Post fit better. I worked with the gaffer’s (Tony Knocko “Anthony G. Nakonechnyj” and Michael Gallart) to create these. They used handheld LED lights.
Q – What are your personal thoughts on THE SORCERER’S APPRENTICE?
A – John Nelson: Working with Jon Turteltaub and Jerry Bruckheimer was an amazing experience. They are both great at what they do and they made working on “Sorcerer’s Apprentice” both fun and satisfying. This was also the first film I shot in NYC and that in itself was incredible. The city is so full of history, stories and magic. My crew was fantastic. We had VFX vendors in Los Angeles (Asylum, Method, Co 3, the in-house team), London (Double Negative) and Australia (Rising Sun). So the sun never set on our VFX empire.
Q – You’ve worked on the special effects of I, Robot. Can you tell us something about the ways you can try to humanize things that are, in essence, not human? Like robot Sonny.
A – John Nelson: In each story you try to connect the part that VFX has to deliver with the way a human would understand and interact with it. With Sonny in “I, Robot,” you needed to see that the robot could think and feel and that was all about his eyes and the way they moved when he spoke and thought. In “Gladiator,” it was all about a what a person who walks up to the coliseum would look at and experience. In “The Sorcerer’s Apprentice” that would be what a sorcerer would see, touch and feel when they create magic. Humans are all about eyes, face, hands and feet. The more you can show, the more you humanize the effects.
Q – What are the big differences between creating special effects for science fiction and creating them for fantasy?
A – John Nelson: I think for Science Fiction, VFX needs to be more real where in fantasy you can stray away from realism to make fantastic events and characters.
Q – How would you describe working with Nicholas Cage? Can you also share experiences with other famous actors from different movies?
A – John Nelson: Nic is great in that you can talk to him and explain your thoughts and he will think about what he can use for him to express his character. Early on we spoke about how sorcerers use their hands to create magic the same way conductors use their hands to conduct the symphony and coax the music out of the orchestra. This appealed to both of us and it was a very organic way to coax the magic out and gave us a link back to the original “Fantasia” as well. Nic is wonderful and always pulls a great performance from a place deep inside him, making it personal. It is my second film with him (I also did “City of Angels”).
Q – Fantasia – Could you explain how you solved the scene technically with the mops and brooms, which software was used, what problems occurred, did you also use real water?
A – John Nelson: We knew the Fantasia sequence was going to difficult because we were remaking a piece of cinema history that is loved. We wanted to make our homage to be more reality-based and we had to do it in a shorter period of time (the original Sorcerer’s Apprentice part of Fantasia was about 10-minutes and we had to do it in much less that that). To work out the gags, Jon Turteltaub wanted to shoot the stuff with Jay acting first, then we would go back and get the stuff with the brooms or mops only doing their thing. We used people in green suits moving mops and brooms in a room built by John Frasier and Mark Hawker (our practical FX guys) that could flood up to about 3 feet of water in an 80 foot in diameter room. We took out the green people and replaced the mops, brooms, water when we needed something to act differently from what we originally shot. A large part of the sequence was to see how much human character we could give to each of the possessed mops and brooms. We would have them walk like a human and stretch like humans but look like real mops. It was fun and very challenging. The animators at Double Negative in London did an amazing job bringing the realism and characters to life. As for software, we used Maya to model and animate, Renderman to render and several different compositors. I also love Tank the bulldog when he gets cleaned. That is digital water running down his face!!!
Q – How do you think will CGI effects develop/improve in the future? It’s clear we haven’t seen all yet, but what are your plans and/or predictions for the next decade?
A – John Nelson: Technology and creativity will develop more to show stories that seem more real and show fantastic things. If you look at the history of movies from the original “King Kong” to “Avatar” the best movies that have visual effects are great movies with great stories and the visual effects work shows us something new while helping tell those stories.
Q – What would you say is the biggest challenge for an actor when in a visual effects heavy movie?
A – John Nelson: The hardest thing must be when an actor is completely by himself in front of green screen. This is why I try to always have real stuff near the actor and near the camera. The actor uses the real props to act with and react to. The audience is an expert in realism and wants to be amazed by the story, characters and how clever the filmmakers are in letting the audience experience what the characters are going through.
Q – I can imagine that the process of creating a film with as many VFX as THE SORCERER’S APPRENTICE is not only time-consuming, but also stressful and “intense” in every other aspect. Was your first thought when you heard that the movie is finished and how did it feel to watch the completed film for the first time?
A – John Nelson: We really worked hard to get all the stuff we wanted into this film and it was satisfying to see the finished product and how all the effects seem to fit into the story as a whole. We used five different VFX vendors and the work looks as if it was a unified vision. When I saw the finished product that is what I was the most proud of. The team we had from Jon Turteltaub and Jerry Bruckheimer to all our VFX vendors, editorial crew (Chris Capp especially!!) and the internal VFX crew never gave up trying to make things better. I think after we finished everyone went home and slept for a week!
Q – What do you think about stereoscopic 3D?
A – John Nelson: Stereoscopic 3D is great but only if it used as another way to make the story real and not in itself as a gimmick to say look at me. Stereoscopic 3D is like visual effects, it should make the movie better without drawing attention away from characters and their stories.
Q – Do you already know what your next projects are going to be?
A – John Nelson: I am taking to some folks about some great projects. Unfortunately, I can’t discuss them right now. I mustn’t count chickens until they are hatched.
Q – The making of seems to be fun to the actors, you had amazing sets, nice props – could you tell some funny things that happened during the shoot?
A – John Nelson: In the testing of the magic, we shot with Jay Baruchel being the sorcerer and Jon Turteltaub being the person the magic is being acted upon. The best test had Jon T. (our director) reading a newspaper while Jay B. conjured a plasma bolt. Once Jay got the plasma bolt made and increased its charge, he released the bolt and it knocked our director on his butt, sending papers flying and cracking up the crew. Jon Turteltaub is a great guy who is very smart and very funny. He did things like this all the time to crack us up.
Q – If I understand correctly, the process for a visual effects team to get selected for a movie is quite different than it is for let’s say a director? Could you elaborate a bit on that?
A – John Nelson: Directors are storytellers and I think they are chosen because of their skill at storytelling. The Visual Effects Supervisor is chosen by the director to fulfill his vision, using all his talents creatively and technically. The Visual Effects Supervisor chooses the vendors based on each vendors talent, personnel and desire to do the project. The creative always needs to drive the technical. There always needs to be a reason why something is being done. It is a technical field but is most effective when it serves a creative need and does so in a superlative creative way.
Q – What would be the first thing you’d tell someone who wants to study the creation of visual effects?
A – John Nelson: I would say study photography, filmmaking, acting (especially if you want to be an animator) and look at film and reality in a way to see what is important to people and to you specifically. Above all if you want to make films, make films. The equipment exists now at every economic level. If you want to do VFX do VFX with the tools you have. Follow what you find fascinating. I have been fortunate in that I found something I love and it is now my job.
Q – Do you believe it is more difficult to make the effects for movies like this movie or is it far more challenging to create effects for movies, that have are set in the reality?
A – John Nelson: Both are difficult for different reasons. Large VFX films have to be real but also fantastic. Reality based films have to be real and with completely invisible effects, (so much so that people often do not see any of your work). Each story requires effects that show story points that need to be made. The amount of intensity you make those points with is the choice of the director. He or she uses effects as another tool to get his points across.
Q – How much of a difference is it to create a VFX for a 3D movie and what are the key differences?
A – John Nelson: With 3D you have the choice of shooting in Stereo or not. If you shoot in stereo, it makes the shooting slower but the posting faster. If you shoot normal (2d) it makes the shooting faster but post production slower. Effects work is also harder in 3D because the depth needs to work for each layer of each effect.
Q – John, any final thoughts on The Sorcerer’s Apprentice?
A – John Nelson: This film was satisfying to work on because the people were great and the work itself was challenging. Jon Turteltaub, Jerry Bruckheimer, Nic Cage, Jay Baruchel, Alfred Molina, Monica Belluci, Teresa Palmer and Toby Kebbell were all fun and made each day on the set enjoyable. The entire production crew and post crew were the greatest and worked their butts off to get it right. I especially like the tagline for this film. When asked if sorcery is science or magic, Nic Cage replies: “The answer is yes.” When asked if this film was fun to make, my answer would be the same. Thanks for such great questions!
